[Tccc] The flower st...
Pars Mutaf
pars.mutafatgmail.com
Sat Dec 8 01:56:14 EST 2012
Hi Joe,
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Joe Touch <to... at isi.edu> wrote:
>
> On Dec 6, 2012, at 10:03 PM, Pars Mutaf wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 10:51 PM, Joe Touch <to... at isi.edu> wrote:
> > FWIW, this concept is already known and does not require a new standard
> or proof about social networking or other electronic sites.
> >
> > A non-spoofable solution is to publish the hash of your publication in
> any archived newspaper (i.e., in the personal ads in the back).
> >
> > See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_timestamping
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback. What the flower standard adds is:
> >
> > 1. Freedom to put your idea anywhere you like.
>
> Linked timestamping already provides that. Once you publish your stamp,
> you can post your paper anywhere.
>
>
My sentence was not clear enough. It is about getting your idea
*timestamped anywhere you like*. Using Social networking sites is allowed
and suggested.
> > There are many possible solutions. Flower standard allows to use all of
> them.
>
> So does linked timestamping.
>
>
Linked time-stamping is only one solution. There are other solutions which
provide the same, even better, security.
The flower standard allows to use all of them. Currently, we suggest using
social networking sites because they are well-known and well-established.
You could build your own time-stamping service but no one would trust you.
> 2. The flower sign on a file indicates to the public that a document is
> original and protected using this method.
>
> You can do this with a simple sentence in a footnote. Yes, you can create
> a cute logo, but ultimately you need that sentence anyway because you need
> to explain the logo anyway. If you have the sentence, you don't need the
> logo.
>
>
This is similar to the copyright sign. We need a standard to explain what
the sign means. Otherwise people will write wrong things in the footnote.
In addition, you cannot explain all the technical details (i.e. explain how
your idea is protected) each time you publish something.
> > If I see a document and there is no flower sign on it, I can pretend
> that it is mine or try to steal it.
>
> It's trivial to steal things anyway. You just need to change enough that
> people who read the stolen version won't trace it back to the original. For
> the hash that's easy - changing one word ought to be enough. For ideas,
> it's not all that hard to say the same thing in a slightly different way.
>
People will compare and see who found the important part first.
>
> So unless someone else matches the stolen idea to the original, nothing is
> caught or stopped.
>
> I.e., it's easy to create a hash of a rendition of an idea, but it's
> impossible to hash an "idea".
>
> > ps: The newspaper solution is not really feasible. You can't find such
> newspaper and this is probably a slow solution.
>
> Find a newspaper = New York Times, or frankly any major newspaper in a
> major city. Even those that have gone out of print are still archived.
>
> As to speed, it requires the time it takes between applying for a personal
> ad and seeing it in print. That's typically a few days at most.
>
> Note that this sort of "once it's in print it's done" method has been used
> for a very long time in legal circles. It's the common way that businesses
> fulfill the requirement to post notices - "doing business as..." (DBA) in
> particular.
>
>
I personally don't understand why you would pay money for a slow solution
and depend on some people which may steal your idea (the ones working at
the Newspaper). But it is your wish. Note that it is important to put the
flower sign for the reasons explained above even if you use this solution.
Otherwise no one will know that it is an original idea and you protect it
using this method.
It is also important to publish a SHA instead of the document itself.
Otherwise, you cannot prove that the service provider (e.g. social
networking site) did not modify your document. It is important to avoid
giving the control of the document to service providers. Get your idea
time-stamped using these sites and publish the document itself anywhere you
like.
> Joe
>
>
--
Pars Mutaf
flower-standard.org
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