[Tccc] New topic - fewer conferen...
CCNY
habibatccny.cuny.edu
Sun Jun 2 16:18:44 EDT 2013
I agree with you Giuseppe..
Although collecting data from conferences and utilizing it in a process to
make decisions could be useful, it is important to realize that human
experience with its subjectiveness is irreplaceable and should not be
eliminated. Data and parameters could help and guide human decision making
process but not replace it.
As you have correctly pointed out, a small event with 30 or 40 presentations
could be more valuable than another bigger one where attendees are the
primarily the authors of the papers. This is a factor that could be measured
and considered with others in making a decision. However, there are other
factors that could be influential in making a decision, yet might not be
properly quantified. One may say this is subjectiveness, using the adjective
"subjective" as if it is a bad word. "Subjective" is not a bad word, it is
part of our human experience and could not/ should not be replaced.
Prof Ibrahim Habib
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2013, at 9:09 PM, Giuseppe Bianchi <giuseppe.bian... at uniroma2.it>
wrote:
> Human factor: that's why I find appealing a metric consisting in the
> number of attendants over the number of papers.
>
> Having 400 persons traveling to a 40-papers conference without any
> presentation to deliver is the result of years of human-judgement
> practice which at least suggests that papers presented there are useful.
> Then, you can find crappy papers everywhere, simply the probability is
> deemed to be lower that in a 300 paper conference attended by 300
> authors and nobody else.
>
> Giuseppe.
>
>
>
>
> On 02/06/2013 20:22, CCNY wrote:
>> I disagree with your conclusion about my argument. I did not say anything
>> about " total subjective process". The logical conclusion of my argument is
>> that we cannot eliminate human experience, nor can we replace human
>> subjective opinion by a set of parameters and thus pass the judgement
>> process to a computer. There will also be a human factor which could not be
>> quantified. Guidelines should be treated as only guidelines. Human
>> experience is valuable, it could be shared but not replaced by parameters.
>>
>> Prof Ibrahim Habib
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Henning Schulzrinne<h... at cs.columbia.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I see this exercise more of as the equivalent of the health grades posted
>>> near the restaurant door, e.g., A, B and C in New York. Lots of non-gourmet
>>> restaurants are graded A, but most people would probably think twice before
>>> eating at a C-grade restaurant.
>>>
>>> Unless you want to abandon the "technical co-sponsorship" concept for
>>> ComSoc or want to make this completely subjective, you need some criteria
>>> that indicate a minimum level of "academic hygiene".
>>>
>>> Similarly, you and other senior members of the community have no difficulty
>>> recommending "good" conferences for your students to submit papers to. The
>>> ComSoc stamp of approval is one way for others, e.g., those new to the
>>> community, to separate the sham conferences, of which there are obviously
>>> many, from the reasonable ones.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, the logical conclusion of your argument would be that
>>> ComSoc should either technically co-sponsor every conference or none, or
>>> make the decision completely subjectively, leaving it subject to the
>>> justifiable conclusion that this is an old boy's club.
>>>
>>> Henning
>>>
>>> On Jun 2, 2013, at 1:43 PM, CCNY wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I second the opinions of some colleagues here that such attempts at
>>>> quantifying the "best conferences" with a set of metrics is wrong as well
>>>> as inutile.
>>>> It is tempting to design a template by which conferences could be measured
>>>> and thus passing the process of judging conferences to a computer. However
>>>> this approach is just wrong and is not the right discussion to improve the
>>>> overall efficacy of conferences.
>>>> This is not the same process by which food critics judge a restaurant by
>>>> factors like menu, taste, presentation, cleanliness, decor, service, and
>>>> others
>>>> Fortunately enough the process of selecting noteworthy scientific papers
>>>> for presentation is by far quite involved and could not be quantified by
>>>> straightforward simple parameters.
>>>> It takes years of experience and practice for one to be capable of passing
>>>> a thorough opinion on an event or even a paper.
>>>>
>>>> Prof Ibrahim Habib
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 2, 2013, at 7:07 PM, Marco Mellia<mel... at tlc.polito.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> something like this ?
>>>>> http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~almeroth/conf/stats/
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marco Mellia - Assistant Professor
>>>>> Dipartimento di Elettronica e Telecomunicazioni
>>>>> Politecnico di Torino
>>>>> Corso Duca Degli Abruzzi 24
>>>>> 10129 - Torino - IT
>>>>> Tel: +39-011-090-4173
>>>>> Cel: +39-331-6714789
>>>>> Skype: mgmellia
>>>>> Home page: http://www.tlc-networks.polito.it/mellia
>>>>>
>>>>> Il giorno 2Jun, 2013, alle ore 5:59 PM, Giuseppe
>>>>> Bianchi<giuseppe.bian... at uniroma2.it> ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In replacement of "acceptance rate", once a friend tried to convince me
>>>>>>> about adding some factors as the absolute number of submited/accepted
>>>>>>> papers and the number of attendees. Perhaps he is right and acceptance
>>>>>>> rate just make sense if we analyze all conference context.
>>>>>> Loosely related to your comment, I'd definitely like to see something
>>>>>> like the below table, maintained by the crypto and security community,
>>>>>> also for networking conferences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://icsd.i2r.a-star.edu.sg/staff/jianying/conference-ranking.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, senior persons here around can easily "guess" what are the events
>>>>>> which would be at the top according to these criteria (and hence where
>>>>>> it is really worth to submit your best work), but having it black on
>>>>>> white would be quite instructive (esp. if we further account for
>>>>>> attendees per track).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> IEEE Communications Society Tech. Committee on Computer Communications
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>> _______________________________________________
>> IEEE Communications Society Tech. Committee on Computer Communications
>> (TCCC) - for discussions on computer networking and communication.
>> Tccc at lists.cs.columbia.edu
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> _______________________________________________
> IEEE Communications Society Tech. Committee on Computer Communications
> (TCCC) - for discussions on computer networking and communication.
> Tccc at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/cucslists/listinfo/tccc
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